Well, you probably do need to follow one particular path. It's just that none of these people can agree on what it is...
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| Author: | old man [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:33 pm ] |
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I'm going to use a 28' radius on my soundboard. My question is: Do you folks radius ALL of your bracing on your soundboards or just the x-braces or the x-braces and...... Also, wouldn't radiusing all the bracing distort the soundhole? Thank you, Ron |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:38 pm ] |
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i radius them all. some do the x, tone bars etc and leave the upper transverse etc flat. you have to find what you like so experimtent. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:34 pm ] |
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I us to do them all, now I just do the x braces, and tone bars, everything else is left dead flat. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:53 pm ] |
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I radius tham all, except for the upper transverse brace. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:07 am ] |
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Everything below the soundhole radiused, everything above, flat. So far, so good! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:11 am ] |
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I am with Lance here I shape everything north of the sound hole flat and everything south is radiused. Make for less sanding for the FB extn. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:30 am ] |
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I radius X braces and tone bars only. The fingerbraces conform, and the transverse being flat makes fretboard extensions easier to deal with |
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| Author: | old man [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:41 am ] |
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Wow, it's really great to see these responses. There's a lot of diversity here and that helps ease the tension on a first timer, knowing I don't have to follow one particular path to be successful. Thank you all. Ron |
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| Author: | Jerry Hossom [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:48 am ] |
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Well, you probably do need to follow one particular path. It's just that none of these people can agree on what it is...
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:30 am ] |
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I radius them all, and take my lumps when fitting the fingerboard extension. There is no one 'best' way to make a guitar. There are, however, different systems, and, although each one in itself works well there are limits as to how much you can 'mix and match' features and get it to work. Every part of the guitar, especially on the top, contributes to the sound, and exerts its influence in a complicated way. Each system is a way of balancing the different influences of the various parts that results in a workable whole. Thus your best bet as a beginner is to follow some particular system pretty closely, until you figure out what the various parts do on some level. Then you can start to make substantial changes and move toward your own system. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:38 am ] |
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I do the same as John Mayes, (or course with one execption) the only ones that I don't radius are the little finger braces and that's because by the time they are shaved down they just don't need it. And I'll bet after seeing Johns video on bracing he would agree that the little fingers don't need it either. I do agree that you should pick one way, stick with it for a while and then make subtle changes to see what the effect is. I've done the same thing with Kerfing and now have what I consider to be a good system for side bracing and kerfing that allows the top to move freely. But it took me a number of revisions and listening to the results to figure it out... Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | Sylvan [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:08 am ] |
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X and tone bars only. Everything else remains flat. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:50 am ] |
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Hi there Ron, Everything ,including the bridge patch. This gives the soundboard a perfect crown.I think it a mistake to think that smaller braces don't need it . Unless you want small flat spots and/or braces under tension. Some will probably argue this. I also radius the braces on the sandpapered dish orientated to their proper position on that dish.I don't want to open up that old can of worms on this one, but believe me when I say that there is a big difference between my method and simply putting a 28' curve on a brace. Thats if you want it to sit perfectly on your crowned s/board. The upper transverse receives a 70mm. wide "flat", right in it's middle to accomodate the fingerboard extention. this also gives the neck /extention the correct angle Don't forget that the bottom of the bridge should also receive the radius treatment. KiwiCraig |
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| Author: | John [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:20 pm ] |
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I thought that everyone just bent the bridge patch in the dish. Is this true or is Kiwi on to something? |
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| Author: | old man [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:12 pm ] |
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Thaks again to all. Wow, Kiwi, I like what you've said here. I had planned on radiusing everything (even the bridge plate) so I am glad to see someone mention this. I also really like the idea of leaving the flat spot on the upper brace. Seems to me that NOT radiusing everything will introduce unwanted tension. I also agree with sanding each piece at its proper location on the dish. There was a big discussion awhile back about the dish having a constant radius, but that is only true if the piece (or an extension of it) runs through the center of the dish. Ron |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:14 pm ] |
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a radius is a radius is a radius. if the dish is spherical it doesn't make a bit of difference where you sand on it, or what direction you sand, it is all the same shape, and will impart the same curve, so long as the operator uses correct technique. it is the nature of the beast, and elementary geometry. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:34 pm ] |
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G'day again Ron (Bones) Hey your thinking well for an old guy! You have it dead right on the brace radius bit. Some guys just can't grasp it . What others have put forward is that any tension introduced by the maker is inconsequential considering the two hundred pound the strings are going to pull. I don't really go along with this theory. I'm trying to build a perfect instrument, therefor , the platform which I make should be as perfect as possible. Hey!, it's more work! maybe that is the reason some don't. How do they feel bending down that patch? ......... It can't be correct. By continuing the crown above the soundhole area you are also adding strength to the neck join Think of the egg shell affect.You dont see many eggs with flat spots. One major brand maintain????? that there instrments sound better with a flat area above the s/hole,,,,, How long before a neck reset?? A frame bracing let into the headblock has to help also. Regards Kiwi |
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| Author: | Joe V [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:34 pm ] |
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Wouldn't it make a difference where you radius on the dish if you want to keep the brace orientated in a vertical position? Seems to me that a brace that is radiused toward the edge of the dish and kept in a vertical position would be shaped differently than one that is held flush against the dish. My thought was that if the brace is radiused flush against the dish, it wouldn't make any difference what part of the dish is used. But then, it would only be radiused in one dimension instead of two. Don't know if it matters but it was something I was wondering about. Joe Volin |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:05 pm ] |
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look at a sphere? try to find any part of it's surface that is different from another. to impart a different shape it has to have a different shape. a radius dish is just a section of a sphere. any and every track on the surface of the sphere is part of a great circle around the shere, and has a uniformly shaped surface, hence can only produce uniform results, provided the operator uses correct technique. that is to say that the work is held in the same orientation to the surface. this uniformity is also why the center posts some use to rotate their dish around when sanding the rim and linings to accept the top are unnecessary, though they may make it easy to use. where ever you sand on the dish is going to impart the same shape because the shape is the same all over. this is really simple geometry folks. |
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| Author: | Keith M [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:11 pm ] |
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Amen Crazy, Probably best to always sand in the center of the dish because it is easier to keep the brace etc. vertical such that it will align with the center of the sphere. |
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| Author: | Joe V [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:18 pm ] |
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Michael, I guess that is my question. What is the correct technique? So far I have done mine anywhere on the dish for the reason you outlined. Its the same no matter where you but it. But, if I held the brace so that its bottom side was kept horizonal to a plane under the radius dish, and used the outside portion of the dish, I would end up with a radius on both the bottom and the side of the brace won't I? Would that be a good thing or a problem? Joe Volin |
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| Author: | Keith M [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:23 pm ] |
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The brace is strongest when it is perpendicular to a plane tangent to the sphere. |
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| Author: | Keith M [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:25 pm ] |
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That is the lightest brace for a given strength. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:27 pm ] |
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Hey Joe(Hendrix) You have it in a nutshell. If you were to sand it properly, you will notice it will be sanded more on one side than the other. Some guys can't grasp this.If you are to simply install a radiused brace as others do, the brace cannot remain in a vertical position. I must state that when I radius them ,I have a piece of wood sit over the sanding dish and it's 90' side locates the position of the brace to be sanded.The brace rubs against this 90' and keeps it vertical. the brace then conforms perfectly and in a vertical position Any brace that is not installed vertically can't be taken too seriously. It has around half the strength. Think about it,,It will probably just want to twist and that's about all. All that chisel work wasted. There you go Joe , I suppose your "goin to shoot your old lady cause you caught her messin round with another man"
Kiwi |
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